Building Software To Solve Your Own Challenges – Joe Mansour (Speak4)

Joe Mansour:

Once someone sent a message to their lawmakers on this issue, they cared about they're, bought in and they were much more likely to then donate to the organization than if they'd just been asked directly for a hard solicitation.

Eric Wilson:

I'm Eric Wilson, managing partner of startup caucus, the home of campaign tech innovation on the right welcome to the business of politics show on this podcast, you are joining in on a conversation with entrepreneurs, operatives, and experts who make professional politics happen today. We're speaking with Joe Mansour, founder, and CEO of speak for a new advocacy platform that makes it simpler for organizations to empower their supporters, to speak up for the causes they believe in before making the leap to entrepreneur. Joe has had a long career in digital campaigns and advocacy in our discussion today, we talk about what led him to build, speak for what he's learned, making the switch and the results of a new case study that we could share with you, Joe, the public affairs and issue advocacy space already has a lot of software offerings. I think it's one of the better funded piece of the sector. So I'm curious to hear from you what was missing from those offerings that drove you to build, speak for

Joe Mansour:

As a practitioner in this space, I was using a lot of the other tools out there and I mean, I just got really frustrated with the products that were out there. I was a power user. We used it for my clients, my, my you know, projects. And I would talk to these legacy vendors and I'd say, Hey, this, this is broken. I can't get a response on this. This doesn't work. And I, I got the blow off time and time again, and I got frustrated enough and fed up enough. I was like, screw this. We can go and build a better mouse trap. And so that's what we did.

Eric Wilson:

Got it. And so, you know, as you mentioned, you were on the other side of that equation before you launched speak before. Now that you're almost two years into it. What have you learned? Switching roles?

Joe Mansour:

Everyone who told me it was gonna be really easy to build a software product. They all lied to me.

Eric Wilson:

<Laugh> I don't know who you talk to. I

Joe Mansour:

Know it's a lot harder than it looks. I think the biggest, I mean, it, it's a, it's a different, it's a different mindset sort of being a consultant and sort of serving the needs of your, of your clients versus building a product where you have to sort of devote that energy and sort of focus on that plan, you know, at a more longer term pace. And then it, you know, I, I, I sort of think of our, of our product and company is, is almost like a three-legged stool between the product, the sales and the marketing, the sort of education of folks and the, the customer success, the sort of support and onboarding. And, you know, as one piece of that go grows, the other pieces have to sort of keep up with it and kind of maintaining that balance is a challenge, but also exciting,

Eric Wilson:

Right? I think one of the things that I've always had a challenge with when working with software products is, you know, you and I being, being digital consultants, going back a, a long time, we wanted everything to be just so, and it, it wanted to be a reflection of our, our best work in products and startups in particular, you're having to iterate and put stuff out there that isn't, you know, you know, what the roadmap looks like, and they're gonna be more features added on how do you deal with that challenge? Mentally of knowing that, Hey, I, I wanted this to be so much bigger than it is right now, but I need it to be in the, in the marketplace as it is.

Joe Mansour:

Yeah. That, that's the challenge. I kind of follow a few dictum and I talk to my team about them. The first is, you know, we have always sort of practiced the, the MVP approach to, to building and getting our tool out there, the minimum viable product. And so what is the, what is the core offering that we need to have for our clients and partners to be successful? And let's build that first and demonstrate, you know, utility on that piece. And then we can do a phase two and, and iterate on top of that, but being very laser focused on that. And actually when we were in the initial phases, you know, kind of two years ago of building out our product, we had a much larger sort of set of features. And we realized that in order to build them out with the development team we had around it at the time, you know, and where we were like, it was gonna take us way too long to get to something that we could start to sell.
And so we, we actually pulled features back and pulled features back until we sort of stripped it down to just the very core offerings that we knew we had to have. And, and we used that to get up and then we've added more features on and more features on, but I think it was being just very ruthless about what you are going to build and prioritizing that. And, and then, you know, continuing to maintain a ruthless focus on what are your core future offerings that you do not get feature bloat, which is frankly, one of my biggest problems with a lot of legacy vendors in

Eric Wilson:

This space. Yeah. And I think that's, that's, what's so interesting about the approach that, that you are taking compared to kind of the, the legacy vendors out there. Because I think that they you know, I don't wanna single anyone out, but, and, and I'm not, but I think in general, you see software offerings in this space, over index for what the client wants, following the client's lead on what the product should be, rather than putting forward an offering that makes an opinion of you don't need a bell ring every time someone calls Congress, but you do need this feature, right? Those kinds of decisions are hard. And sometimes you have to tell paying users. No, and that's one of the disciplines of, of Lean's startup.

Joe Mansour:

It's hard. It's very hard. And it's a balance. I think because, you know, as we look at our product roadmap, you know, we, we went into the, this year with, with a product roadmap and we, we, we iterate on top of that as we got feedback from the market. But I think we've maintained discipline and I, I, I just, I feel very strongly and it's sort of, it's a philosophical point of view that, you know, you need to bring new ideas to the marketplace. That's innovation, right? You need to bring new features, new ideas and people aren't gonna be able to tell you what they want in terms of innovation. They don't know cuz it's not been provided to them yet. No one, no one can sit there. I mean, it's the, you know, probably overused sort of, you know, Steve jobs, iPhone metaphor of, you know, if you sat around waiting for someone to tell them, yeah, I want a, you know, touch screen phone that does all of this stuff. I mean, never would've happened. You have to sort of anticipate and build, you know, stuff. But the flip side is you have to be responsive. And, and I think that balance that sort of all this into play

Eric Wilson:

That's exactly right. And I also see another challenge here for, for a lot of entrepreneurs in this space and really good book that I recommend to folks called crossing the chasm. And so when you are a startup, when you're building your minimum viable product, you're not building it for everybody. It is, it is not for mass adoption. It is for early adopters that people who are so frustrated with the offerings out there, that they will put up with some rough edges in order to get something that they like that addresses their pain points. And I, I think that's another thing that, that people don't realize that they, they think that they've gotta get out into the marketplace with like a completely built application. And, and, and that's how it's going to be from day one.

Joe Mansour:

Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And, you know, we follow a, a similar sort of strategic approach with, with how we think about our, our audience and our market. We speak for, I mean, there's a lot of folks using advocacy tech, you know, in public affairs space and, you know, we built a really robust offering, but some folks, if they're satisfied with their legacy vendor, it's great continue to use 'em. But if you're unhappy, if you're frustrated, if you can't get your, an your, your phone calls answers, you have bad customer service. If the integrations are broken and you need them to run a smart, effective digital campaign, you know, come talk to us. And that's, there's plenty of folks out there that fit that bill that we have found, and we've been talking to. So, you know, I, I just, you cannot, you cannot boil the ocean. You cannot, you cannot build something that everyone will like. That's just, I think, asking for failure,

Eric Wilson:

Joe, for you, what has been the biggest challenge in transitioning from your managed services role, leading agencies to building a product company?

Joe Mansour:

You know, it's a, it's a very different mindset. You know, the, the skills, a lot of ways overlap and this industry, I mean, I've worked in digital, you know, politics and digital kind of advocacy for, you know, 15 plus years. So that skillset sort of translates that background, but, you know, with an, with an agency, you know, your clients are in a lot of ways, kind of siloed. Each client has their own issues, you know, the techniques and talent. I mean, you bringing them to bear, but it's very sort of silent. Here's a solution for you. And here's a solution for this other client and with a software product, like speak for, you know, the, the pro all of your clients and partners are affected by the product. And when you make changes, they're all sort of impacted if you update the product, all your clients, touch it, and, and thinking about that and, and sort of having a, a kind of disciplined approach to how you think about the product you know, is, is, is a mind, mind shift, I think you know, and it can, it can kind of come to bite.
You, you know, there was, there was a pro a feature that we, we, we got some feedback. Someone was like, Hey, I really would like the, the, the, the product to do X. And we thought, okay, that makes sense. And so we, you know, we pushed a, an update. It wasn't a huge one, but we pushed a small update. And then like a week or two later, another, you know, user on our platform popped up and was like, Hey, I saw you added this and this messed with my campaign in such and such a way. And it was like, oh, wait, yikes. Yeah, we pushed an update that we thought was gonna help everyone. And it helped some people, but it caused, you know, challenges for others. And, you know, it, it, it, it was like a light bulb moment for me. It was like, oh yeah, no, no. Do like, you gotta think a little bit more kind of seriously about these updates and, and try and really understand how that's gonna impact the platform for all of your users.

Eric Wilson:

You're listening to the business of politics show. I'm speaking with Joe Mansour, founder, and CEO of speak for we're talking about advocacy and how to use technology to make your advocates more effective. Joe, think you've got some really good insights here from both running these campaigns and, and building a product. I'm curious to hear just kind of your overall sense of what do groups corporations need to do to shape public policy today.

Joe Mansour:

One, I'm a big believer from a kind of communications and an advocacy standpoint of in all of the above strategy. And I typically do not recommend to the clients that, that I work with, you know, only do this one thing, and that's gonna sort of be a silver bullet, you know, whether that's, you know, a really smart sort of Intel gathering, operation, lobbying, grassroots engagement, earned media, digital, what, you know, using speak for, you know, advertising both to drive people, to take action, grassroots activation and persuade and educate grassroots engagement in, in the media. All of it, you know, I think together in general, like kind of follow the, the more is more right. The, the challenge is to integrate these different pieces together, have them work in sync so that they're not isolated either not supporting one another or working at cross purposes, you know?
And so, you know, whether that's sort of integrated data sharing between different tools, integrated strategy and goals, it's that integration knowledge, sharing, data sharing, and sort of strategic alignment that is, is sort of vital to success. And I mean, that's a big focus for us. And I mean, I think that's where my sort of consulting background is informed how we think about what we do with speak for, you know, we put a lot of emphasis on like onboarding new, you know, new clients onto our tool. And when we sit down with them, we understand, okay, tell us about your, your, your strategy for this campaign that you are running. What are your goals? Let's make sure we're making the best recommendations from a tech tool standpoint so that the software helps you drive towards those goals and, you know, sort of integrates with your larger strategy. But that, but that is, you know, in a nutshell, I think about it.

Eric Wilson:

Yeah. I think that's, that's really the key. Anyone who is trying to shape public policy or even public debate today has to be flooding the zone with every possible channel and platform you can be on. There is no one way to do it because attention spans are so fragmented and, and people are consuming information all over.

Joe Mansour:

Yes. And you know, this is, and this is advertising 1 0 1, but the repetition, right. The message repetition, the reinforcement. And, and I'm a big believer as well in, you know, hearing it from different sources, different channels. I think that that elevates that, that impact of that as opposed to, oh, I only saw this on Twitter versus, you know, I heard it from my neighbor. I saw it online. I read it in the paper, you know, then it, I think it really, it has a magnified impact.

Eric Wilson:

So Joe, when I'm talking to folks in the issue advocacy space, maybe they work at a trade association or a, a nonprofit or something like that. They have a really hard time figuring out what they should pay attention to. Right. Because I think going back to my days, working on the hill volume was really the only signal we had of, you know, calls were higher today. And this is generally what they were about that doesn't really speak a lot to, to kind of impact. So I'm curious to hear, you know, what are the signals that you look at that you can see through speak for that, that really indicate that something is hitting?

Joe Mansour:

So the first metric is, are we, are we driving engagement through the platform to the targets of a campaign? So our message is going to lawmakers. Is there that value so that I think that's always sort of step one. And we look at what the analytics within our platform, we look at, you know, website traffic, and, you know, we see a red flag, for example, if someone's driving a lot of traffic to a landing page, but they're not converting. And that says, you know, either there's something wrong with, you know, advertising or creative, or maybe copy your language on a landing page. And you know that then we reach out to them and say, Hey, you know, you let's, let's jump on the call and kind of help you troubleshoot that. So, you know, one is the flow. Then two is, I think Eric, you're starting to allude to is the quality of the activism, the quality of the engagement. And so that's where we love to see like people submitting video testimonials using storyteller mode, which is a tool that lets people sort of collect and share video testimonials. In

Eric Wilson:

Addition to that's a, that's a new feature that you guys just put out, right?

Joe Mansour:

Yep. Correct. And, and you know, pretty powerful that, that again gets that higher quality type of activism. And then related to that, right, is this idea of what we call advocate lifetime value and measuring, if folks are taking multiple actions, either on this campaign or over the course of their engagement with your organization and starting to see, Hey, what is the value in sort of the, you know, how do we build a more engaged core group of activists who are gonna engage and take, take more action with us? And so, you know, one of the things we're rolling out in September is an advanced reporting tool tool set on our platform. That's gonna make it easier for folks to kinda dig into those sorts of metrics and, and better understand what we're just talking about.

Eric Wilson:

So the center for campaign innovation is out with a new case study that you collaborated with them on that that looks at how one of your users, the common sense club a 5 0 1 C four nonprofit used speak for, for an advocacy campaign and ended up seeing, not only driving the actions that they wanted to, to lawmakers, but they saw an increase in donations. Why do you think those two items were, were correlated?

Joe Mansour:

Well, I think it takes, it takes advantage of the upsell concept that has been commonly applied in politics, particularly political fundraising, but I hadn't seen really leveraged in advocacy. And so, you know, once someone takes action, you know, they're often much more likely to take another action. And with, with this, with this case study, we saw, Hey, once someone sent a message to their lawmakers on this issue, they cared about, they were they're bought in they're sort, sort of invested. And they were much more likely to then donate to, to the organization than if they'd just been asked directly, you know, for, for our hard ass solicitation. And that, that concept of the upsell, which is not new, we're not the free first people to discover that's been around for a while. But for some reason, I don't think a lot of legacy vendors in this space are just not taking advantage of it in their software offerings. I think that's what powers that, and that's, by the way, the same sort of concept that we leverage with storyteller mode, where once you take action, you're then asked to submit a video testimonial. We tested it when you tried the other way. It typically doesn't work. People are like, whoa,

Eric Wilson:

Wait a minute. Yeah, this is awkward.

Joe Mansour:

<Inaudible> first,

Eric Wilson:

Right? Yeah. It's, it's that engagement ladder that we've, we've always been talking about. And I think one of the, the really interesting things that's happening here is, is of course we are having kind of a industry wide conversation about donors and, and how do we treat them? How do we get more donors to give? And I think platforms like speak for one of, you know, is one of the answers, right? Because people want to do more meaningful stuff than donate. And, and this is a really straightforward, pretty lightweight for the advocate way of, of making a difference. And, and, and to your point doing that initial action that than, than yields something more substantive.

Joe Mansour:

Absolutely. And, you know, you can treat it as a list, building exercise as well, right. We, you know, collect supporter data or leverage your existing list to, to then, you know, engage them further. But a hundred percent,

Eric Wilson:

One thing that I've noticed recently is that, you know, pains, whether that's for a, a, a candidate or an issue are most successful when they align with a community and a cause, right? So if you are an organization trying to push a message, you're swimming upstream, but when an organization can provide, let's call it scaffolding or structure or foundation to a grassroots movement, that's when you see these really powerful effects. And, and I think, you know, what we saw in this case study is that that speak four is, is one way to do that because you had this organization meeting the moment where parents were upset with what they were seeing in schools and, and it provided a, an outlet for them to be more effective than if they were just all doing it on their own.

Joe Mansour:

Absolutely. You know, I think there's a phrase in consulting, you know, fish where the fish are. Right. You know, go, go, go where people are. <Laugh> much easier. I totally agree.

Eric Wilson:

So, Joe is there another startup in this space that you considered building before going with speak for?

Joe Mansour:

Well, so honestly, I, I had, I, I actually went through the exercise filed paperwork, but I started a, a startup company that was gonna do an advocacy tool back in 2014. So I guess, wow. That's what eight, eight years ago, we never launched, you know, didn't kind of, wasn't able to get a team together to be able to build the tool that we wanted to build and, you know, decided to, you know, do other things, but had the idea. And I've always been fascinated with, with advocacy and advocacy tech, but the timing wasn't right. And it was right when we came in time to, to start working on speak for, I mean, the situation was different. It was in the heart of COVID, as everyone was a hundred percent reliant on digital tools to, to engage their legislators, you know, they couldn't do in person meetings. And frankly, my ability as a founder to, to build a team and sort of lead eight years is a long time to hopefully get a little bit smarter. <Laugh> right. So, so yeah, I guess that was had to fail a little bit before you could start to succeed.

Eric Wilson:

Well, I think that's a really good lesson for, for all of our potential and aspiring founders listening. I wanna say thank you so much to Joe Mansour for a great conversation today. You can learn more about him and speak for in our show notes. If this episode made you a little bit smarter or gave you something new to think about, all we ask is that you share it with a friend or colleague, and you'll look smarter in the process, remember to subscribe to the business of politics show wherever you listen to podcasts. So you never miss an episode. You can also sign up for email updates on our website at business of politics, podcast.com. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.

‍