Podcasting, Politics and Connection – Adam Belmar (Advocacy Content Kitchen)

Adam Belmar:

It's a little bit like old time radio. I think a lot of our audience in the political space have that in their DNA. It was something that we grew up with and it's not surprising to me that it's come back.

Eric Wilson:

I'm Eric Wilson, managing Partner of Startup Caucus, the home of campaign tech Innovation on the right. Welcome to the Business of Politics Show. On this podcast, you are joining in on a conversation with entrepreneurs, operatives, and experts who make professional politics happen. Our guest today is Adam Belmar, founder of Advocacy Content Kitchen, a media production studio, catering to organizations with important stories to tell. Adam has a extensive background in journalism. He was the senior producer on ABC's this week with George Stephanopoulos, as well as Good Morning America. He went on to serve President George W. Bush as Deputy Director of the Office of White House Communications. After the White House, Adam has been working with a lengthy roster of corporations, nonprofits, and trade associations, advising them on their content and communication strategies. Now, I have to stop the intro there, or Adam will cut it out because he's also the producer of the podcast you're listening to right now, the Business of Politics Show. He's helped me put out every single episode, and he's the one who makes me sound good. So excited to talk to him today. In our conversation, we dig into how podcasts are becoming an important medium for the public affairs industry and politics, how to get into podcasting, and what makes a podcast effective for your goals,

Adam? So let's start with the basics. Why are podcasts such an effective medium for politics issue advocacy and public affairs?

Adam Belmar:

Podcasts are great for all of those things, Eric, because they connect in a very real way. You're bringing your own voice, you're bringing your own articulation of the issues, and its owned media, which is something that you talk about so often on this show. I think to just set the table, podcasting is akin to narrow casting. You have a very intentional idea of what you're trying to share, the audience that you're trying to reach. And if you're focused on adding value in a political or issue advocacy or public affairs sense, people will resonate with that. They'll come back, they'll subscribe. They'll want to be involved in hearing more, enjoying it. And it's a little bit like old time radio. I think a lot of our audience in the political space have that in their d n a. It was something that we grew up with and it's not surprising to me that it's come back with new technology with better reach, with the ability to bring something that is not weighed down by the visual. And I have been a visual communicator all my roles as a journalist, whereas a broadcast television news producer, that's so much more complicated and sometimes less effective than just bringing your voice to the table.

Eric Wilson:

Yeah, and I think it's particularly well suited for, for this industry because it supports long format and the, the issues that we're talking about are, are complex, right? It it is. You know, no one is ever gonna have me come onto their cable news show to talk about the ins and outs of, of political business or, or why emails work this way. And if you're lucky, you get one or two sentences in a, in a story. So if you're, if you're trying to share information, persuade a conversation, podcasts are a really good method for, for stretching your legs a little bit in, in a way that we don't get anywhere else.

Adam Belmar:

I think that is a perfect point. I think you are a case in point. You've always been a great communicator, but over the near a hundred episodes of the business of politics, you've grown as an interviewer. You've found your voice, and when you talk about stretching your legs, you're really building muscle memory. Your ability to present in any format has been enhanced by the repetitive nature of your work and engaging with people in this space who are leaders and people who don't necessarily agree with you. I think one of the things that I love the most about this podcast as a case in point, is how often you're able to deconstruct what's going on on the other side of that political coin, to give credit where credit is due and try and glean some of the things that are going well and bring them into what you are doing, whether that's for the benefit of the audience and the advocacy or the political campaigns that they're working on. I think also in a public affairs sense, there's personality to the spoken word that never comes through in a written transcript. And to your point that a soundbite on the evening news while worth it for in a traditional media sense, can oftentimes be 15 seconds. And it really never gives you a chance to fully explain in the way that you best full throated hope to do. So, the points or the supporting evidence behind your point of view,

Eric Wilson:

And yet we still need the, the, the legacy media because of their reach, because they're, they're getting in front of voters, members of congress, whomever we're trying to, to reach. So how does podcasting fit back in to that overall strategy of, you know, whether that's tv, print, other forms of, of media that are out there?

Adam Belmar:

I think it is a small but important part. It is a worthwhile endeavor that can red down great benefit to the organization and even to your stakeholders, but it is not in any way a substitute for the traditional media mix that any campaign needs to aspire to be successful in. When you're talking about traditional media, you're talking about ad buys, you're talking about creative content creation, and all of these things have to play a role in getting the message out, a driving engagement. But the one thing you can control in a podcast who you're talking to, the voices that you bring into it, and then ultimately the benefit that you hope your audience will derive because there is a bit of a two-way street there. People will come up to you, they'll say, I heard your show. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, or you'll see evidence of that Eric, where they share it. And it is something that becomes of interest to a further group. You don't get that benefit so often with traditional media. So again, it's a very important smaller element of your overall strategy, but it can never fully supplant, nor should it, it's in addition to a traditional media strategy.

Eric Wilson:

Yeah. I think there are two key benefits worth, worth highlighting here. So one, it it, it does help you refine and practice delivering your, your message in a really low risk environment. So when you do get on the phone with a reporter or you go into the studio for a TV hit, you've got hours of practice not not just theoretical media training, not just writing down your talking points, but you've, you've actually got the muscle memory to your point. I, I think that's a really undervalued benefit of, of podcasting in this business.

Adam Belmar:

Absolutely. And, and I think that for my clients, for the people who I get to work with across government relations, public affairs and issue advocacy, it begins to have a benefit immediately for the people who are involved. It's a point of pride for folks who are broadly associated with the campaign or the department maybe that you're representing, but ultimately it brings a sense of understanding of who this individual is. You've developed a bit of a relationship. If you listen to this show with Eric Wilson, you know a lot about what he's done, but he is personal relationships with the people that he brings on. Of course, we're talking about you is if you're not here, Eric is the thing that keeps us coming back, right? We're learning something and we're getting to know your humor. The things that you say again and again are the bits of education that we need to listen to the most. There's a reason that we come back to some of these core messaging. So I, I really would ask everybody who's thinking broadly about podcasts and how it might fit in. You've gotta have to give it a try, and I think we'll be able to sort of enunciate some of the things that you need to line up to get yourself going towards success. But I agree with you, it is a relatively low risk and potentially high benefit endeavor.

Eric Wilson:

And that, that brings up another point, which is it hones your skills in the way that if you're, if you're doing standup right, you, you go out into the clubs. I mean, you, you know, you see these like world class comedians going up into clubs where they might be 30, 40 people. They work out their set, they, they, they work out the kinks. And, and for me, this podcast is where I'm able to refine some of my material that then shows up in a panel or a keynote presentation or a media interview. And I think that's a, a huge benefit. The other thing that I see with, and this, this kind of presses it more out into popular entertainment, but I think there's, there's room for it in, in our industry, which is, you know, one of my favorite podcasts that I listen to all the time is the Office Ladies.

Now it's two actors from the show, the office, where they're going back through and, and rewatching it and breaking it down and giving you some behind the scenes. Well, look, I've, I've watched the Office now, you know, several dozen times through and I'm still craving content there. And so they've, they've provided that there's, there's this misconception that we have shortened attention spans, and that's just not true. Anyone who has binged a show knows that they've got a really long attention span. It's just, there's so much competing for your attention. And so for a certain segment of your audience, what you're putting out as a company, as a membership organization, as a campaign is never gonna be enough for your super fans. And podcasts are an affordable way to really scratch that itch and, and give them more and level them up as supporters.

Adam Belmar:

That is a terrific example, especially when you think about the fact that when you are listening to a podcast, I would guess that most people are doing something else. I love to listen to podcasts and I'm often mowing the lawn, taking a walk. I might be doing the dishes or cleaning, and sometimes it's a news program that is sort of, you didn't listen to it live, but they have a podcast so you could listen to it. And if the show is done well, even the evening news, I should be able to hear it, understand who is speaking all without the benefit of the visual cues that come. And so that kind of effective communication that is inherent to a successfully done podcast allows you to accomplish a lot of things at once. And we know digitally that people are downloading, finding the time, doing other things, and sort of co consuming. And we need to respect that. That's something that's real for us. It's real for everyone out there.

Eric Wilson:

Obviously, we're, we're dealing with a niche subject. No one's getting 20 million podcasting contracts in in our business, and, and we're not getting these, you know, huge top of the Apple Podcast charts. So how do you measure success in podcasting for campaigns and issue advocacy and public affairs?

Adam Belmar:

That is an important question, and I think it's an evolving answer. There are like so many tools in the digital toolbox metrics or key performance indicators that you can look at, and many of them in the podcasting space are not helpful if you're being honest about what you're trying to achieve. Lemme break that down in a couple ways. Narrow casting is as much about finding, speaking to, and reaching that audience than it is being out there like consumer product. You're not advertising to everyone. And it, and it's almost like campaign outreach and whose eyeballs you really are striving to get. In this case, those eardrums that either aren't with you or persuadable or curious, those folks are your audience. So if you're getting a good metric on how many people over time are downloading and listening and reengaging, and then moving on to other ancillary topics that you've done or sharing, you start to see, okay, last week's episode may have done X, but our overall reach for that week was x plus 500.

Where did those other 500 listens to not new content come from? I see that as a pretty important metric for success in podcasting. Here's another one. If you are getting feedback in really honest ways from people who've engaged with your content, the kind of thing that you would get in a retail politics environment where you're out there with people talking to them, or hearing back from stakeholders at times where no one's on the air and there's no microphone to be found and they just share, Hey, I learned a lot, or, I love that episode, where those are great metrics. And here's one more thing to think about when it comes to metrics. If you are pushing your podcast with money and marketing, and you are so focused on how many more listens we got this week than last week, you might miss the forest for the trees, that this is a marathon.

This is in no way a sprint. Even if you take that really bold step that you did to file every week, you are a prolific human being. You're constantly iterating, writing, talking to people, and then harnessing that power to bring people back here. But every two weeks is fine. Being able to ensure that you can have a repeatable process and stick with your audience week after week, month after month, and then year after year, that's great. Now, there are campaigns out there that don't have that much time, and we know that as listeners to this show. So maybe that value is giving people a real touchstone to get to know your candidate, and that doesn't mean your candidate needs to host the show. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, that doesn't mean that there aren't communicators in your shop who could be a better host and then bring that principle in on a regular basis, but also get out there and talk about the things that have been going on just as an update. So there are lots of iterative ways to do this, and if you're thinking correctly and honestly about what you hope to achieve and not overestimate your influence or some crazy metric that someone told you you had to meet, I think you can find success in a meaningful and cost efficient way.

Eric Wilson:

Yeah, and I think another thing that's really important to emphasize here is that if you are not clear on what your goals are of starting a podcast, you're you're gonna get lost. You'll, you'll start chasing your tail. You know, for me, this podcast fulfills a a few goals. The first was I wanted to learn more about podcasting, right? One of the things that I do is, you know, start newsletters websites. So whenever I'm advising people on how to do this, I have some experience with it. So there's, there's that, that objective. And then the second is we had these really good mentoring sessions for our startup caucus founders, and I said, look, more people need to hear this advice. There's no reason that it can't be shared more broadly. And then then third, just to continue to get out the word about Startup caucus in the work that we're doing, introduce ourselves to more people.

So you'll notice that in, in those objectives, I did not say anything about number of downloads or ranking on podcast charts even though those are the, the metrics that are most available to me. One of the things that's really funny, I don't know if you get these emails from, from Buzz Sprout, which is where we host the show, it sends me an email once a week saying, oh, you got 500 downloads last week. You could be making $23 per month on podcasting. I'm like, well, I, my return on, on podcasting is far greater than that, otherwise I wouldn't keep doing it. But assigning a dollar value like that based on downloads alone, and it kind of misses the mark.

Adam Belmar:

Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of some of the great guidance that we've had this year from folks on this podcast about open rates and all kinds of things that are really important to know if you know the universe of things that you're looking at. But if you just look at one thing and you think that is everything, you're, you're gonna get yourself into a tizzy. I get those same Buzz Sprout emails on a weekly basis, and I, I produce upwards of nine shows concurrently here in 2023. Not all of them are publicly available, some of them are more internal comms. I know how to look at 'em and so do you. And we see things about this show that make us excited and happy and fulfilled and know that we're moving in the right direction. But even in weeks where we'll take off on some of my other shows and I see constant uptake for older content, I know we're still meeting the need that's out there and that we're servicing our audience. And, and that makes a difference to me. I can see the forest for the trees when the numbers aren't always the where you wish they would be.

Eric Wilson:

You're listening to The Business of Politics Show. I'm speaking with Adam Belmar, founder of Advocacy Content Kitchen about the world of podcasting in public affairs and politics. Adam, I want to shift gears now into some really tactical, practical advice for people who might be ready to take the plunge. So where should someone start when it comes to getting their own podcast going?

Adam Belmar:

I think the most important thing if you're getting ready to start a podcast, is begin to frame out how often do we want to do it? Who's that audience? Who are we gonna book? Who are we gonna talk to? Is this a soliloquy? There are people out there who are just talking into the mic and sharing that in a podcast format, and sometimes that works. I think the narrative storytelling, experience sharing, failure sharing elements of podcasts are what really grip you as a listener. So you've gotta create all of the ingredients that you're gonna need, including understanding the amount of work that it's gonna take. I think also when you're getting ready to start your own podcast, you have to think technically, what do I need specifically in order to record my voice? Or how do I connect with my guests? Or how do I bring other sound maybe that came from an appearance from my candidate this week out in the field and bring that in.

Those things get a little bit more complicated. But in 2023, Eric, a lot of this is fairly simple. With a modest budget, you can find a microphone that's a U s B microphone. You don't need an $800 dynamic microphone. It would be great to have if you have a great voice, but it's about sufficiency. It's about making sure that you have a consistent quality sound on both sides of your podcast, that you're wearing headphones, that there's not an echo that to the extent that dog barks while you're doing it, you can either take it out or acknowledge it because your listeners are gonna understand <laugh> where you're coming from. Another thing, when you're thinking about frequency, two weeks, I think every two weeks is about as far as I would recommend, if you're serious to go. Does any of that ring true to you, Eric? And yeah,

Eric Wilson:

No, I, I want to dig into the equipment stuff in a minute, but just the, the, the important point, and, and this goes for any content you're creating, is you've gotta have several things in place, which is value. What, what is, what am I going to give the listeners an exchange for their time? Then there's the relevance, right? So you can't confer value un unless it's, it's relevant, but I see valuable content made irrelevant all the time. And then, and finally, and this is, this is the key to audience building is consistency. So, you know, if, if you say once a month, it's gotta be out once a month. If youre saying every two weeks, it's got you. I mean, you and I are up late some nights making sure that the podcast goes up on Wednesday. I'm up late on Thursday nights, making sure the newsletter goes out on Friday. You know, you've gotta hit that consistency. And so whatever format, whatever approach you take, just needs to be something that you can hit consistently week over week.

Adam Belmar:

Absolutely. And, and I think that that drives us into this need that you could almost feel palpably to have somebody who's technically proficient as an aid to camp somebody who's listening to these recordings and editorially going through them, making sure that things that never intended to be on the air, that were an aside, are not included end to end, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well. And that means at the beginning, and maybe even throughout finding the assistance and the resources that you need to do it properly. My podcasting career actually started back in 2005. I was the senior producer for ABCs this week with George Stephanopoulos, and we had an idea what if our, our audience could talk to Sam Donaldson and Coie Roberts and George will more than just the time that they were on the panel. So we took a microphone and we started doing the Green Room. It was the first podcast at ABC News. The conversation extended. It was a great idea. It was something that everybody started doing. And by the time I ended up at Sirius XM and started a podcast come radio show that went on every week, Eric, it was

Eric Wilson:

All

Adam Belmar:

About making sure that we find the value, bring it back every week with intention, and don't waste time doing it. You know, if you're podcast is 20 minutes, so be it. Is it a crisp, tight 20 minutes? Is it just some rambling foreperson didn't know who was talking hour long bonanza. That's a tough rodeo for a podcast.

Eric Wilson:

Yeah. And, and so going back to the equipment piece for a minute, because I, I see a lot of times, you know particularly on campaigns, but in, in other organizations as well, where, where equipment becomes the excuse not to do something. So say, oh, you know, I'm gonna start a a, a podcast, but, you know, I gotta figure out what the right microphone is. And I read 20 reviews and, and I still haven't decided. And, you know, or, and then I'm, I'm downloading editing software and it, you know, takes me about, you know, 30 hours each week to get, to get the sound just right. And, and what, what happens there is like, you, you've actually not put anything out. You've just, and, and sometimes that's, that's fear of putting something out that people can criticize. How important is equipment versus getting something out there? What can someone like you do to help make the show sound better if the equipment's not top of the line? Your

Adam Belmar:

Equipment doesn't need to be top of the line, but it absolutely needs to be right for the job. You've gotta have headphones. If you're doing this right, you've gotta have an external microphone. And if you need an audio interface to bring that analog sound into a digital environment, you're gonna need to get that too. Sometimes an easier way to go is to just take a U s B microphone, which goes directly into your computer. You can get on a web-based platform and record, but the sound around you is also everything. If your office is by a window and you're in downtown dc, New York, la, wherever it is, and there are sirens going out the window and it becomes impossible to edit with it, making it sound exactly like what it was a big jump cut, or it's just hard to hear, that's a real problem.

There is what I call a sufficiency line when it comes to audio, and that starts with equipment. Get over it and you'll be fine. It leads to that second question that you asked, what else can you do? And the answer is, there's a lot. There are tools out there from Adobe that will enhance your audio and take something that might have sounded not so good and make it sound really good. And then you've got other things like that, not free audio recording and editing software that you don't really know how to use. Finding somebody who can do this quickly makes it efficient. And also it gives you the opportunity to put what people who are in the know it says compression on that audio, and then maybe you're gonna take out the ums and the ahs and you're gonna make it a little bit easier to listen to, just like when you'd be editing a document and making it easier to read. I'm not saying that people can't use a word that's like, my old boss used to do Sify <laugh> you know, okay, make up a word. It's own content. You can have your own words, but let people

Eric Wilson:

Know Shakespeare did it.

Adam Belmar:

Yeah, he did it.

Eric Wilson:

Well, Adam, I think one of the, the big challenges for, for folks in this space is we've got topics that are interesting but not entertaining and the, there's a, a little bit of a leap there. So what, what sort of practical tips would you offer here for someone, maybe they're, they're at a think tank or a trade association, like some of the podcasts you work on where it's, it is serious material, you gotta deliver it accurately, but you're trying to get people to spend time listening to a podcast. How do you put the little spin on that to make it just entertaining enough?

Adam Belmar:

Well, I really appreciate this question cuz I think it's a little bit of my own personal special sauce that I bring to the work that I do. I really believe that the first conversation you have with someone should not be on the air. That's a fishing expedition. Respect your guests and respect your audience. Do your homework, and then do a pre-interview, talk to that person. Try and understand what are those salient points? How can I craft my questions to get that goodness out? And then build on the conversation. If you have somebody on your podcast and you ask them to introduce themselves to the audience, you're asking them to carry their own water, and you're not even sharing credibility as the host or the background that the show has a trust and a depth of knowledge that exists on a topic. So you're trying to figure out what are the right topics, think about the right guests if you need to find a guest who's a subject matter expert.

And a lot of my early work was not on politics, not so much on advocacy, but bringing brilliant minds. People would otherwise not get to meet maybe their PhDs. For me, it was a lot in the federal investment in biomedical research through the National Institutes of Health. Talking to some of the, these smart people, they, you know, there's a reason they put 'em in white coats and lock 'em and laps <laugh>. They're not always great talkers, but they have something important to share. And if you've really thought about that conversation and figured out how to distill it and get it to its best part, you're gonna bring excitement outta your guest. And then it just comes down to humor. I think rapport is everything. When you've got people talking to each other and they know a little bit about each other, or they're not jumping all over each other's words, that also is a great way to bring something that is perhaps a little bit boring and make it interesting. Then finally, I would go back to not making your podcast longer than it needs to be. There's nothing worse than belaboring in the Washington sense of everything's been said, but not everyone has said it. If you've delivered that value <laugh> and you've brought it outta your guest, stop, you've won.

Eric Wilson:

Yeah. And, and, and, and it, you raise a good point, which is that the, the timestamps and things like that, those are artificial construct coming from like the old broadcast days. And so, you know, if it, if it's a 22 minute podcast, it's good you wrap it up. The other thing that I, that you have taught me and, and you help me work on all the time, is bringing the energy level up. Because when it gets processed through audio, whenever it, you know, is downloaded to someone's app, the it, there's there're miles and days between when I said something and, and when someone's listening to it. So if that energy is in an up, I mean, that's the same thing for giving a, a speech or presentation. It always has to be higher. Then you feel like it should be, I think anyone walking by my office or, or even listening through the walls things, I'm a crazy person when I'm podcasting because I'm, I'm trying to be at a 10 as as much as I can rather than what I would be like talking to you on the phone, for example.

And so I think that's the kind of thing that, you know, if you're excited about the topic and, and convey that, that can really help with the entertainment value as well.

Adam Belmar:

Dead on accurate. I mean, I I want to tell you I was a professional network television booker at Good Morning America at the beginning, and if you couldn't find a good talker, you had to make a good talker and that can be done. That's what good producers do. Good performers and broadcasters know how to bring that energy up. They know how to infuse what they're saying with either humor or tenderness or seriousness. I think I've been a bit more subdued today than I normally am on the air, because when you hear me in isolated places, I'm usually a co-host. Today's like a breath of fresh air to be able to sit with a colleague and a friend and talk about the thing that gets me excited. But you're right, if you don't bring your energy up and, and you don't feel or sound like you wanted to be there, then you've already shown your audience that this is not worthy of their time. And that's the last thing you want to do when you're getting involved in a podcast or booking guests if you got a great guest, but you can talk to other things about bring them back. People enjoy what works and are ready to test the things that don't, but don't bring back the dog that won't hunt

Eric Wilson:

<Laugh>. All right, well, with that I wanna say thanks to Adam for a great conversation. You can learn more about advocacy Content Kitchen at the link in our show notes. Adam's always up for a conversation if you've got questions about podcasting. He's a really good resource, so reach out to him and I appreciate all of his help with the business of politics. So if this episode made you a little bit smarter or gave you something to think about or maybe you're ready to start your own podcast, all that we ask from you is that you share it with a friend or colleague because in that process, you share the show with someone new and you look smarter in the process. So it's a win-win for everybody. Remember to subscribe to The Business of Politics Show wherever you get your podcast. That way you'll never miss an episode. You can also sign up for email updates at our website, business of politics podcast.com. With that, I'll say thanks for listening. See you next time.

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